| Author | Message | ||
| Jess Monroe (Jess_monroe)
New member Username: Jess_monroe Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2004 |
Greetings, Those of you who know me know I have devoted a great deal of effort into tweaking my boots to fit as best they can. For the most part I have been successful, and most of my boots fit quite well. I use various techniques including thickness of socks, heel cushions, boot stretching, etc. I have a few pairs of boots that cause a pain I just can't seem to conquer. The pain is only on my right foot along the ouside edge of my foot in the arch area. The pain is felt mostly after I take the boots off, and lasts about 1 day. I am guessing the pain is coming from the area around my 5th metatarsal bone spur. I have had this pain in the past on boots that I know were too short. I use to wear boots in a size 11 and 11.5. Now I wear mostly size 12s. Now here is where it gets tricky. Most of my boots that cause this pain still are a size 11.5. However, these are the boots whose lasts run larger then most other lasts in the same numerical size and are equivelent to a size 12 in most other lasts. These boots appear to fit me in every way. The ball of my foot is at the widest part of the boot. There is plenty of toe room. I don't run the vamps over the soles. They don't seem to be too high in the arch for my flat feet. Everythig seems right about the fit of these boots, until I take them off and the pain starts. I am thinking I may need to have them relasted on a last that some of my other boots are made on that doesn't cause this problem. However, these boots have only been worn a few times, and I only want to tear them apart and relast them as a last resort. I am guessing that although these size 11.5 boots are supposedly the same as a size 12 in other brands, maybe there is something about the proportions used in the arch area that makes them unsuitable for my feet. Have any of you encountered this problem before? Is there anything else that I can try doing, before I send these boots to be relasted? I have already tried flattening the innersoles with a steel rod and hammer along the edges, but it dosen't seem to change anything. Thanks for any help. Jess | ||
| Doug Collins (Runninhare)
New member Username: Runninhare Post Number: 98 Registered: 2-2004 |
Jess, Don't take the boots off,that should solve the problem. Just joking. Who made the boots? Have you tried a wedge heel piece that will raise up the back of your heel,the last that they where made on might have to much arch for your flat foot causing your foot to stretch just a little. Doug | ||
| Jess Monroe (Jess_monroe)
New member Username: Jess_monroe Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2004 |
Doug, Thanks for your reply. I already use a heel cushion/wedge in all my boots, and it really helps the fit for my flat feet. Of the boots that have this problem, 2 were made by J.B. Hill, 1 was made by M.L. Leddy, and 1 was made by James Leddy. All the boots seem to have flat shanks, and I have other M.L. Leddys that don't have this problem. One M.L. Leddy that fits better was custom made with a slightly wider instep and ball, but still is a size 12. I brought the James Leddy boots back to the Leddy shop where they did flatten the arch. It seemed to help some, but not completely. None of the boots feel like they have a high arch when I am wearing them, and I have some Paul Bond Boots that have a slightly higher arch, but they don't cause this pain. So the mystery continues... Jess | ||
| Jon Schwartz (Tiptoe)
New member Username: Tiptoe Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2005 |
Jess, Is this the area you are talking about?  | ||
| Tex Robin (Tex_robin)
New member Username: Tex_robin Post Number: 593 Registered: 1-2004 |
Jess, If you were my customer I would solve your problem by making the boots I made for fit the right way, no matter what it took. You and I have had this discussion before and you know my opinion about your problem. You are not turning your problem over to a good bootmaker but trying to solve it yourself with quick fix gadgets, multiple pairs of socks and make shift innersoles. You need one good bootmaker who can fit you. And I am not soliciting your business...TR | ||
| Christopher M Williamson (Ttex)
New member Username: Ttex Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2004 |
Jess I just looked in on the group and agree with Tex. You need a maker that knows you and your needs. Once found, stay with him/her. Orthotics are not that hard to make and can not be seen when built into the boot. With atraditional thickness insole orthotics are not needed in some cases. All this is said without knowing exactly what your problem is. That is why you need to see someone and have them look at your feet and your needs. Take care CW | ||
| Jon Schwartz (Tiptoe)
New member Username: Tiptoe Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2005 |
CW- Do you know of any makers who put orthotics into the boots? | ||
| Christopher M Williamson (Ttex)
New member Username: Ttex Post Number: 111 Registered: 1-2004 |
Jon I am in Denmark so the number of boot makers I know is lacking. With that said, I know there are makers with orth. schooling. Tex and some others have talked about some of them. I think Lee has the knowledge ya'll are looking for. If you look at the ladies wooden heel shoe I posted, you would not think they have orthotics in them, but they do. Depending on how a maker treats a customers needs ( correct, relieve the pain or both) the last is built up. The cork is what makes the bottom of the boot look like a boot or shoe. We use the metric/cm scale over here. The shoes I am working on have 0.25 in the back, 0.25 med. and 0.75 lat.. so what you are looking at is adding less than a cm to the measurements. Like I said, this is why a good maker with orth. training can fix some problems with a thick insole instead of cork. Some platfoot people are best helped with a higher heel which lock the foot more in place. Just to round it off, Jakob ( my master) has learned to relieve the pain with some customers when he would correct the same problem with other customers. That is why I agree with Tex. Sometimes they have to work out the best way. Janne might know which makers have the training and live in the right part of the states to help. gotta go, Ya'll take care CW | ||
| Brian C. Thomas (Brian_c_thomas)
New member Username: Brian_c_thomas Post Number: 221 Registered: 1-2004 |
Jess, relasting the boot will no solve your problem. You need a custom last build to fit your foot, no a specific size last. I do not even ask the customer what size boot they wear when I build a custom last. I use a last with the characteristics of their foot. Though for the Brand" Brian C. Thomas | ||
| Christopher M Williamson (Ttex)
New member Username: Ttex Post Number: 112 Registered: 1-2004 |
Jess Brian hit the nail on he head. I should have written that too in my essay. I'll try to take a picture or two at work soon. Jakob orders raw lasts and starts the prcess from there, Thanks for adding on Brian A Tired Texan CW | ||
| Christopher M Williamson (Ttex)
New member Username: Ttex Post Number: 113 Registered: 1-2004 |
I took the camera to work today and took some pictures. Like I said the lasts start as raw lasts ca. a given size. Jakob changes it depending on the needs of the person. We are given the lasts and the uppers and a work sheet which tells us how to make the cork and the shoes. Jakob puts metatars. supports in along with PPT if needed after the shoes are finished. At the last place I worked before we made the different supports as part of the cork. This process is what Brian and the others are talking about.The customer has a short leg as you can see.     | ||
| Jess Monroe (Jess_monroe)
New member Username: Jess_monroe Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2004 |
I just read your responses to my inquiry. Thanks all for your input. CW, I have found that a slightly higher heel (1 1/2") is more comfortable for me. These boots feel like they are putting more pressure further forward on my feet, closer to the ball, which makes it feel like pressure is relived from the 5th metatarsal bone spur area. Brian, When I have my boots relasted, they are done on lasts with buildups, not stock lasts. All, I know I am a frustrating customer for a custom bootmaker, because you are trying to give your customers as close to as perfect a fit as possible. The truth is I am after a fit that is not quite so perfect. Because my feet swell so much during the course of a day, I must have a boot that has at least a little "sloppiness" built into it, or I will only be able to wear the boot for at most a couple of hours. This is why I shy away from orthotics. Once my feet swell, everything starts to change. My solution is to just continue to buy boots from the companies whose boots are comfortable, and just forget about the rest. Fortunately, I now have many pairs of comfortable fitting boots so I am in no danger of going barefoot anytime soon. I have been visually comparing my comfortable boots with those that don't feel so good, and I have noticed something. The line of the top of the heel on my comfortable boots starts lower at the front of the heel and angles upward toward the back of the heel. On my less comfortable boots, the line of the top of the heel is more parallel to the ground. On these boots, I feel the arch more. I am wondering if it is that angled heel line that is causing my feet to bend less in the arch area, making the boots more comfortable. Does the angle of the top of the heel actually make a big difference, or is the comfort factor in the arch area more dependent on other, more important variables? Is this difference just an asthetic design difference? I have noticed that many boots from South and central Texas have this angled heel line, while many boots from say El Paso do not. Jess | ||
| Christopher M Williamson (Ttex)
New member Username: Ttex Post Number: 122 Registered: 1-2004 |
Jess Sorry about not responding sooner. I have been away from the computer lately. I can see there is not a response to your question so I’ll jump in. In general the highest level heel is 3 cm. After that the heel will start to have more angle on it as it gets higher. There are a few factories that make some foot shaped shoes that are “in minus.” Most people cann’t use them. Just a little note remember to look at the thickness of the sole. If it is thicker than one layer the rule doesn’t hold. If the sole is 1.5 cm thick then this will have to taken from the heel measurement. In geral a normal leather sole and a 3 cm level heel work fine. Some shoe start to angle before the the 3 cm mark. This will cause the foot to open. One last thing. With the last made for your feet all you have to do is make the boot/shoe with a 3 mm extra layer under the last. This can be taken out when your feet swell. Cork is always good beause the maker can adjust it to your needs. I hope this helps CW | ||
| Jess Monroe (Jess_monroe)
New member Username: Jess_monroe Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2004 |
CW, Thanks for your most comprehensive answer. I always deeply appreciate when someone takes the time to explain to me how and why things work. Jess | ||
| Colin Wigington (Colnwig)
New member Username: Colnwig Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2009 |
I'm reading this thread for the second time and since we're on the subject of foot pain, what might cause one foot pain that would leave the other foot painless? | ||
| Tim Skyrme (Artzend)
New member Username: Artzend Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2007 |
Colin If the pain is like a needle in the bottom of the foot, it may be that a nerve is being pinched between the bones behind the toes. To solve it for myself, I use a metatarsal pad that I make from foam and insert so that it forces a transverse arch of the foot. If it's not there the pain is acute. Hope that helps. Tim | ||
| Tom O'Sullivan (Tomo)
New member Username: Tomo Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2004 |
Standing on a tack does it for me!  | ||
| Suzanne Watson (Suzanne)
New member Username: Suzanne Post Number: 69 Registered: 7-2008 |
I was reviewing some old notes I took for "A Lifetime With Boots".... "A higher heel can take a tighter fit and shorter fit from ball to tip of toe. When walking on a high heel, there is less flexing of all the foot bones. Body weight is being taken more directly on the ball instead of being spread over the bones of the arch area. Lower the heel and the arch bones flatten under body weight taking more pressure. The foot will need more flexing room for sideways spread of the instep area and will need more wiggle room for the toes. When building the last, a lower heeled last will need a flatter shank on the outer edge. The posterior head of the 5th metatarsal receives more pressure as the body weight spreads more to the middle bones of the foot and puts more pressure here." "A Lifetime With Boots" by Mizwa/Lucchese and this was from page 11-12? Still available thru Lucchese Co. On a personal note, Ive always been taught to build out and under the lateral (outside) edge of the last (usually starts in front of the heel and forward depending on tracing) if the outside of a persons foot bows out or looks meaty on the tracing or pedograph. You might want to take off the top of the instep and put it to the outside. Last choice is important. I always think of Ed Martin"s comment when he saw the pedograph of one of my customers feet. He exclaimed, "My, she has a fat little foot!" Bootmakers with alot of experience in fitting can look at a pedograph/tracing and measurements and pretty much know what the foot looks like and how a boot needs to fit. | ||
| Colin Wigington (Colnwig)
New member Username: Colnwig Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2009 |
I love the nail in the foot post, Tom, that is great. I wanted to rephrase my question, and to thank Tim and Suzanne for their responses. The pair of feet on everyone aren't the same size. Let's suppose our newest customer arrives complaining of pain in one of the feet. What if the bootmaker doesn't know. I'll be the example. I don't know why this particular foot in that shoe causes pain. Where do I go to figure this all out? Should we bother looking at the shoe? if so, which parts should we inspect? How do we draw conclusions from the shoe? How do I figure out that the last used to make that particular pain causing shoe will be different from the last I choose to make the boot to fix the problem? in other words; How do I know that I can successfully solve the problem? This is sort of what I mean by 'how can there be pain in one foot and not the other?' How can it be that -after having a shoe for a while, that it starts causing pain? Noone would buy a boot that hurts them; so it must cause pain after purchase. How? It's magic, you know. Honestly I do not understand. (especially IF being barefoot doesn't hurt) I'll explain what I do understand. I do understand that (as a bootmaker) if a course of action solves the problem then who cares about the cause. I do understand that if the cause of the foot problem is not faulty manufacture, (nail from insole in foot), then it is probably a fit problem and I imagine that those are mostly similar. If most problems are common problems that means that a limited number of variables result in a high percentage of problems. So all I have to do is catalogue the variables and their common remedies. A guy says to me; It hurts when I wear these boots. Should I say; Stop wearing those boots? Should I say; Get a new pair of boots? or You should buy a pair of my boots. How do I know that new boots will solve the problem? What if it doesn't; then what? sorry if I repeated myself anywhere. | ||
| Suzanne Watson (Suzanne)
New member Username: Suzanne Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2008 |
Hi Colin, I was approached by a lady with really bad feet. Bunions, botched surgery and sticking up toes. As a compassionate person I would have loved to help her and assure her that she wouldnt be throwing away her money. I've been told " you'll be lucky if someone like this doesnt place an order with you. Its usually a lose/lose situation." Of course this is an extreme example. As you get into it you'll recognize basic fit problems that you can successfully address. Unless you want to go to medical school and become a podiatrist, I wouldnt recommend trying to overtly fix people's problems. This is a very complex craft--I guess you have to decide what aspects you want to focus on--Its very hard to be an expert in everything--even within the craft! Historically, boot shops often had a number of workers. There were the guys that did fitting and building up lasts, (lastmaking is entirely a different craft) there were patternmakers and top stitchers. There were bottomers, etc. and each excelled at what they did and the collaborative result was a beautiful boot made by several craftsmen. I dont mean to sound dour because when starting out you want to explore all facets. You have to be realistic and its important to ask if you can get paid enough for what you. Will this be a hobby or do you want to try to make a living at it? How much money and time can you throw into your training and where is it going to get you? Who's going to pay you for what you offer? What will you have to charge? I really appreciated Dave Little's talk at W Falls in '08. Keep the questions coming. There are many opinions here! | ||
| Colin Wigington (Colnwig)
New member Username: Colnwig Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2009 |
Today I called a podiatrist: I don't want anyone thinking that I don't take my own questions seriously. I spoke to the...person that answers the phone that is not the doctor, she did not want to tell me anything. "I cannot make diagnoses over the phone" when I offered a hypothetical situation. I really appreciate this response; what you've shared is really helpful. It is the craft of making boots that interests me, and there are so many complexities!!! I can't even figure out which nail to put in the heels! I thought about what a podiatrist does; a family practitioner would prescribe medicin; and the podiatrist a shoe. But who makes the shoe? someone has to make it... you see? That company or organization would know about feet problems and their correction; you see? Then the podiatrist would; knowing all the different manufactured types; prescribe the best to his or her knowledge for the patient's foot. So where are those people? | ||
| Colin Wigington (Colnwig)
New member Username: Colnwig Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2009 |
I found This after posting that! SAN ANTONIO PODIATRY ASSOCIATES, P.C. RICHARD A. POLLAK, DPM, MS Diplomate American Board of Podiatric Surgery RICHARD A. BELLACOSA, DPM Diplomate American Board of Podiatric Surgery RUSSELL STANLEY, DPM Recommended Walking Shoes 1. New Balance 5. SAS (Women-Freetime; Men- Timeout) 2. Rockport 6. Avia 3. Asics 7. Brooks 4. Saucony 8. Adidas Recommended Dress Shoes (Women) 1. Easy Spirit 5. SAS- casual, sandals 9. Nurture (Dillards) 2. Rockport 6. Soft Spots 3. Hush Puppy 7. Aerosoles 4. Naturalizer 8. Aravon (New Balance) Recommended Sandals/Clogs 1. Birkenstock 7. Dansko 13. Crocs (clog or flipflop) 2. Clark 8. Joseph Seibel 14. Fit Flop 3. Born 9. Soft Walk 4. Merrell 10. Chacko 5. Naot 11. Teva 6. Mephisto 12. Bite Recommended Dress Shoes (Men) 1. Rockport Dressport 5. Birkenstock-sandals 9. Clark 2. SAS 6. Ariat- boots 3. Florsheim Comfortech 7. Ecco 4. Dunham- New Balance 8. Born Recommended Shoe Stores 1. SAS (San Antonio Shoes) 2. Whole Earth Provision Company- Quarry 3. New Balance Store (The Forum-1604 & 35 or The Strand-IH10 & Huebner) 4. Foot Solutions Website: WWW.SAPODIATRY.COM Webstore: WWW.OURDOCTORSTORE.COM/SAPODIATRY Physicians Plaza II 8042 Wurzbach, Suite 450 San Antonio, Texas 78229 (210) 692-0279 One Medical Park 14615 San Pedro, Suite 160 San Antonio, Texas 78232 (210) 490-1871 | ||
| Colin Wigington (Colnwig)
New member Username: Colnwig Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2009 |
There's more! Check out shoesnfeet.com! there's a list of common foot problems. I am in the middle of reading about metatarsalgia which is perhaps what the gentleman is talking about at the top of this post. It recommends exactly what Mr Tim Skyrme recommended in response to one of my posts! Tim you're amazing! | ||
| Colin Wigington (Colnwig)
New member Username: Colnwig Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2009 |
Pedorthic Shoe Institute has a custom shoemaking course in Henryetta Oklahoma. 918 650 0623 Eneslow Pedorthic Institute NY,NY 212 477 2300 FOUND 11/2009 |